Joel,
I understand your point, and that is why I am often skeptical of numbers, because you can often use them to make any point you want to make. But in your last statement you make it sound as if you are trying to look good to non-believers, which you totally contradict by being overly sarcastic and rude, as if that looks good to non-believers. It undermines your valid point.

Joel,

on the contrary, I think you make Bob’s point. . . .although slightly different.

The two religions you mentioned are passionate, dedicated and are holding to what their historical framework has as “truth”. Incidently, they both view their truth as very objective.

We disagree with them fundamentally. . . .but that is very different than a watered-down version of something that was once great.

For example. . . a Local Mosque that accepted Jewish folks, had a picture of Christ on the wall, and was pro-US government,. . . would not be a growing congregation. agree?

They believe what they believe. . take it or leave it.

Aaron

bob, have felt this way for a long time, probably prompted by being a part of multiple “dying” churches who were part of the denominations you mentioned. and yes, lesbian pastors did teach there, ironically enough.

i found a large part of the problem was young people. most of the congregation (an overwhelming amount) were blue-hairs, followed my older middle-aged couples and their children. the young adult demographic, in a church of nearly a thousand, was about ten. finding young adult couples there was rare, and most of the kids were early high school or younger.

my experiences there combined with what i went thru in high school to convince me that youth are smarter than anybody gives them credit for. in fact, i have long argued that when a politician reaches out to youth with some semblance of conviction, they would find success that surprised even the pundits – something that has happened this very year with Obama! young people are looking for actual answers, lives that match words, progress, change. i think the dynamic Jesus of the gospels provides all of those things. Unfortunately, the dull Jesus of church-attendance = no-hell does not provide those things, despite the belief of many congregation heads.

rock!

-ivan
24, fallen, and opinionated… redeemed?

ps – this doesn’t mean a church doesn’t need people with experience! the thing i miss most at my new church in la that coram deo provided was a solid group of adults with a track record of serving Jesus. it was great to be a part of a community where the young were thriving and the old were discipling and nurturing, not just surviving.

First, I have to admit that I’m a bit terrified to post a comment for the first time; I’m anticipating being pegged as the stupid college freshman who has no idea what she’s talking about, but I’ll risk it because part of this post has been bothering me for the past week.

I guess I’ve always enjoyed the open mindedness of this blog; I like reading that not all Christians are necessarily conservative KLOVE listeners with their heads in the sand; which I guess is why I was so disappointed with what I felt was another unnecessary jab at homosexuals.

I know everyone who’s reading this probably just freaked out; oh great, another person who wants to mold their faith into an “everyone’s going to heaven ” deal, but I’m not. All I want to get out there is the idea that we’ve got to stop alienating these people as the worst of the worst, as the example that pinpoints the lowest a church can stoop.

I feel like sometimes church leaders aren’t as in touch with what needs to be done to reach out to homosexuals only because they aren’t constantly surrounded by it, not because they’re doing it on purpose…I think after college the gay community, for the most part, completely separates itself; if you aren’t gay, you probably aren’t friends with someone gay. But here in the dorms, it’s inevitable, I’m confronted with the issue everyday, I’ve got almost as many gay friends as straight and I want a church that is willing to help me help them, not through “fixing” them first, but by letting God do the dirty work, because I believe He can, and will.

I wish society would stop pegging people as “being gay”, it’s a label that becomes a whole identity. It’s the idea that if you tell me someone is gay, I immediately know all of their personality traits, everything I need to know about them as a person, and that’s not the case. I think the first step in reaching these people is helping them understand that they’re a person outside of their sexuality. Luckily, the movement towards this is actually starting in the gay community itself, which I think is great for us as Christians, as it finally separates the sin from the sinner, and gives us a chance to minister to the person first, without the person’s whole identity being based in their sin.

My homosexual friends, or rather friends with homosexual tendencies, which I think is more accurate, are searching for something. Most suffer from depression and I know it’s because they’re far from God. I love them everyday because I hope one day they’ll trust me enough to listen to what I have to say; but I also hope that when that time comes I’ve got a church I can take them too; a church that won’t constantly use the sin that they suffer through, that’s so hard to break free of, as an example of the lowest we can get.

I hope I didn’t open some huge can of worms that I’ll regret, I just feel so much pain for these people, these friends of mine, I feel completely at a loss for what to do for them, and I feel like I can’t turn to the church for guidance….

Thanks for listening

Sure, Aaron, and I would agree with that completely, but I guess when I read the post I felt that if I were a person struggling with homosexual temptations I wouldn’t have appreciated that nuance.

Thanks for not beating me up 🙂

Well, now I’m in tears; I feel I’ve been cynical and judgmental and I hope you’ll forgive me for it. I’ve never actually come to Coram Deo, just read your blog (wish I’d checked out the Resource page now, ha) but I think the next time I’m in Omaha I’ll drag my younger brother out with me to go…It’s been a long time since I haven’t felt frustrated in a church.

Thanks so much,
Natalie

Could you please site the source of your statistics. Also, could you please supply the growth rates for other denominations to show that these sects are losing more people. I searched the article you linked and could not find the stats to support your argument. I did however find on page 22 of the link below from your article that baptists are leading protestants with 3.7% lost during this generation.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-chapter-2.pdf
Any clarification would be appreciated.

Oh ok. I cant seem to access that magazine. I dont mean to be confrontational, but to make such a sweeping accusation based on ‘the data’, which will shape people’s perspectives, you should cite the data and supply context. You havent shown that the attrition rates in these denominations is worse than others. Again, your own source, which i referenced, shows Baptists as losing the most people.

I dont really appreciate the inference that i cant do math. I am simply asking for the proper data so that i can do the math. I attempted to ‘consult the data myself’, but you have yet to provide it.
youre comparing two separate studies… you cant do that. In the study you gave, Baptists were -3.9%, Presbyterians were -.7%. Hence why i was asking for more information so that your readers (myself included) could actually see the data.
You may be analyzing the data. However, this post has not supplied sufficient data. so from my perspective, it’s an accusation. Which is why i was asking for clarification.